Greg Barnes

[music] Hello I'm Greg Bonnell and welcome to MoneyTalk Live brought to you by TD Direct Investing. Every day I'll take you through what's moving the markets. We will hear from TD Securities today Greg Barnes Managing Director and in today's WebBroker education segment, Caitlin Cormier will show us how you can track different sectors using the platform. So here's how you can get in touch with us with your questions. Just email moneytalklive@td.com. Or you can fill out that viewer response box underneath the player here on WebBroker. Before we get to all that let's get you an update on the markets. A bit of a different picture today. We have agreed on the screen on both sides. Starting here at home with the TSX Composite Index. 18,531, a game of 223 points before one of the quarter percent to the upside. The big news of the day, we will dive a little deeper later on the show with Anthony Okolie is the Bank of England. Quantitative tightening. Taking on that location of the bond market after that budget from the UK really sent shockwaves through the markets. And now we are talking about buying bonds again. Investors trying to make sense of it all. We thought we were going to be at this stage with inflation. So we are seeing some weakness in the US dollar, some bond yields coming down. Oil, West Texas intermediate about 80 bucks again, gold is on the rise as well. So money is moving in mining stocks and some energy stocks. We will show you Kinross Gold right now representing the name in the sector today. 7% of the upside at four bucks and $0.84. BlackBerry, when we last checked, a bit of pressure. Right now only about half a percent of the downside. Reporting a drop in the cybersecurity revenue for the second quarter. The shares are a little more under pressure at the start of the trading day. But they are coming off the lows. South of the border, let's check in the S&P 500, same dynamic, investors trying to figure out with the move higher the price of oil and the bond yields easing back after a big cloud of the past couple of days. A bit of money moving into the markets. 3,696.48. 1 1/3% and that's despite the fact thatApple,… Again with the NASDAQ despite that Apple news a bit shy of 1% of the NASDAQ. And let's check out this name, Biogen. Reporting some positive results from the late stage study on an Alzheimer's drug. And that's your market update. The threat of a recession, slow growth in China, bad news for the mining sector as of late. But according to our featured guest today, longer term, the supply and demand dynamics could lead to another supercycle and commodities. Joining us now, Greg Barnes Managing Director at TD Securities. Always great to have you on the show. >> Thanks Greg. >> We are seeing a different kind of market flavin that we have in the past. This is been pretty tough for the mining space. What we see in the here and now? >> Obviously the global economy is slowing and I think in particular has been the zero COVID policy in China. Weakening economy, slowing growth, China is struggling. That's not a good recipe for metals demand. Which is what we see. Plus the fight against inflation, higher rates, a very strong dollar… Also driving commodity prices. So I understand why the sentiment is where it's not currently in the fears about recession are obviously very high. And that's not a time generally that you want mining stocks in a big way. >> So inflation in the picture, central banks taking the actions they do, the US dollar reacts, gold reacts… Even a sense of, I guess, some of the budgets. Every sector is seeing increased costs whether it is running the business are paying the workers to work on the business. >> Yeah look, mining costs at the operating level are up. That's a bad combination when you have prices going down. You have a margin squeeze. The companies are fighting hard against his. They are doing all they can to increase efficiencies and reduce costs where they can but we have had significant supply dislocations, higher energy prices although those are coming down. What I will say is the commentary we are getting from the companies currently is it looks like that inflationary pressure has peaked. It's coming down yet. Inflation will remain high well into next year. But we are beginning to see the first signs as we get to work 2024 that some of the supply costs that they are seeing in the budgetary process are beginning to come down. So it looks like we are just about to come over the peak and see some perhaps brighter days ahead. >> If we just took today in a vacuum, which of course we cannot do is investors, but this seems to be a brighter day… Does this speak to the volatility right now on the market? You can see these kinds of swings on the daily basis depending on the headline? >> Yeah people are trying to see what the outlook will look like and it's pretty unclear at the moment. How deeply recession be? Do we have some potential to not have a recession? I'm not sure. People are struggling with that. A little bit of good news goes a long way right now. And, quite frankly, the biggest overhang in this space right now is the US dollar. You've seen in the last couple of days, as the US dollar comes down quite a bit you will see commodity prices directly to that. Because it is such a drag on pricing. So I think we've seen in the last couple of days, today in particular is the US dollar comes down. >> Longer term, there is a greater fear that we will head into a recession. If the Fed is true to its word, you have to slay inflation and that means higher unemployment. We are going to end up in that slow period. When we emerge from that, because every thing moves in a cycle, this business cycle as we know it, we come out the other side, how do commodities start looking on the other end of a question mark >> I think very good. Supply is particularly difficult right now. And I don't think that's going to change much. There hasn't been much in copper gold no matter what commodity you talk about there is not been a lot of discoveries in the last five or 10 years. Building a mine today is very, very difficult particularly in an inflationary environment like we have right now. It's not just that. It's environmental factors, its social license to operate… All of these things are very very difficult to achieve. And the mining companies have stepped back understandably. So I don't see the next generation, let's take copper for example, we will have some supply growth in 2023 and a bit in 2024. But in my view, the next big supply growth isn't even possible until probably 2028. Because the mines are not being built. They need to be sanctioned right now to achieve 2027, 2028… And that's happening. So with the supply constraint and coming out of a recession, we will see improved demand. You know, I do believe we are setting the stage for a potential supercycle in some of these battery driven metals like copper, lithium, the stage is being set. >> You have to imagine that the company is at the heart of all this, are seeing the same analysis and dynamics. What is it about the current environment that they just can't put that money to work? Saying "we know if electrification is the next big thing, that could be a huge demand. Why not build it now"? >> Getting the government permits in place takes years. Shareholders are very cautious about companies building big products. They would rather have the capital or the money back in their hands rather than the companies building products. It's very difficult to build and it's very expensive. So there are headwinds towards developing or sanctioning the next big projects that are pretty high right now. And it is delaying. Making those decisions. >> We talk about past commodity supercycle, are you saying there's a cycle here? People always like to look back in history and say "if I understand what a quantity supercycle looks like, I'll look at the last one. >> The last one which was in the mid-early 2000's was driven by growing and urbanizing. This one will be different. I think you will be driven by decarbonization and it will be driven by a lack of supply. How those play, decarbonization is an element of it that will take some time to play out but it is happening. The lack of supply, is a longer-term issue as well. We need higher prices just to find building for the next generations. So supercycle's have different elements to them. How this will play out, I think is a two key theme we have to watch. Those are the two key themes. >> In terms of investment, you laid out the reasons why the investment is just not there for these mines. Are the materials there ultimately? To meet the demands of humanity going forward? Do we have enough copper? Enough gold? >> Ultimately they are. It just depends. You have to find lower and lower grades of copper. Copper rates of come down dramatically over the past 30 years from we've seen in the 1990s to what we see today. That is going to continue. Minus get deeper. They get into different difficult jurisdictions of the world. So those pressure costs, they ultimately mean that copper prices, for example, have to go higher to justify. >> Fascinating stuff and a great start to the program. We will get your questions about mining stocks with Greg Barnes in just a moment's time. A reminder of course you can get in touch with any time by emailing moneytalklive@td.com or fill out that viewer response box under the video player here on WebBroker. Right now let's get you updated on some top stories in the world of business and take a look at how those markets are trading. Shares of Apple in the spotlight today. Unconfirmed report that the tech giant is scrapping plans to boost production of its new iPhone 14. Another report points to scaled-back demand expectations for the new phone. Such a move would bring Apple's iPhone 14 production in line with its earlier estimates. Shares down about 3%. Enbridge said it entered an investment agreement with 23 First Nation Métis communities. More than 11% nonoperating steak and seven Enbridge operating pipelines. For $1.2 billion. The investment will be overseen by the newly created Athabasca Indigenous investments. It's another sign of softening in the US housing market is borrowing costs continue to rise. New data shows mortgage refinancing activities south of the border shot up to a 22 year low down rather. Here at home in Canada it's been particularly sensitive to these rate hikes that we are getting from central banks. Let's check in on the markets right now. We will start right here at home on Bay Street with the TSX Composite Index. We are seeing oil prices on the riotous, gold prices on the rise. 41 points to the upside rather 241 points to the upside. South of the border, the same dynamics at play in the Bank of England. Giving us something to think about is investors day. 3697, 50 points. About 1 1/3%. We are back now with Greg Barnes of TD Securities taking your questions about mining stocks so let's get to them. Right out of the gate, when will gold be attractive? >> Look I think a couple of things have to happen. The Fed has to pause in the US dollar has to weaken. Gold is a monetary asset driven by interest rates. It's driven by sentiment. It's driven by the US dollar. When do we think those things can start to set up? I would say second quarter of next year, mid next year. That will be just gold that we respond to. It will be copper as well. So I would say we are 6 to 9 months away from those two key elements. The US dollar and the Fed falling into place. >> How have people viewed gold traditionally? In times of risk? These are risky times. Times of turmoil. Obviously a strong US dollar has worked against it. Does gold still perform? Do we think it will perform long-term in our portfolios question mark >> Gold is generally seen as a safe haven at times of turmoil, war, what have you. Early days of COVID… Gold did very well. But the ultimate safe Haven is the US dollar. That's what we are seeing currently. A strong dollar is the enemy, if you like of commodity prices. So I don't think that's going to change much. I think gold still has a place in your portfolio to hedge risks. But at the moment, the US dollar dominates. >> All right. On the gold theme, we have summary asking about Barrick in particular? Do you like Barrick in these current conditions? >> The lower gold price and rising costs… We are seeing a bit of a margin squeeze. We like Barrick Gold over the medium to longer-term, the company is setting itself up very well to operations in Nevada, where I was last week, but, like I said, we need gold price to work for the producers to work. So I think, again, same kind of time frame of 6 to 9 months we will see gold prices and better days at Barrick. >> Interesting part of your job or you see things firsthand. Tell me about that trip to Nevada. > The operations in Nevada, Barrick and Newmont, we were there as that merge was formed. They had a lot of work to do. What we saw last week, is they made a lot of progress on that work. But they still need a couple of years to really get cost heading in the right direction. They have a couple of big new mines that they are wrapping up currently that will take 18 to 24 months to get under full production and that is, 2024, 2025 is and we start to see costs coming down as those big hybrid operations taken. >> So as they work towards those target that timeline, it does sound like risky propositions right? If all goes well, you see it online but I have to imagine that I have never seen with my own eyes. What an undertaking. >> Yeah I will say these operations are largely built for the most risky time of these things is when they are trying to build them and Cap X runs out. They are now at the point where minds are built largely in their beginning to rent them out. So the risks have definitely come down. And they know what they are doing. In Nevada, they've been there for a long time. They have a lot of experience. This is not new to them. So I would say that the risks to ramp up are low. Pretty optimistic about this joint venture between Barrick and Newmont is heading. >> Another question in the mining space. What is your view on First Quantum? >> We had their first big operation 2 Weeks Ago in Panama. First Quantum is a copper name. 90% of their revenue is driven by copper. They are doing very well operationally. One of the big new mega mines. They have it coming like a well old machine. It's going very well. So again, op optimistic on the operational side of First Quantum. Medium optimistic about where copper prices are going to be. >> Longer-term, copper plays a key role in electrification. What role is China playing? We talked a bit before but their appetite for things. They hold copper and store. What are they have on hand already? >> Actually, inventories globally that we can see, that you see on the London metal exchange, Shanghai exchange in China, US, are actually quite low. Lower than they have been in a long, long time. They came up a little bit in the last couple of weeks but are at 10 year lows with visible copper inventories. That speaks to supply constraint as we came through COVID. Demand has definitely weakened in China. But it's still not bad despite with going on there. The pullback in the real estate market has certainly hurt. But I think copper imports, refined copper imports into China are still up year-over-year in 2022. >> Interesting stuff. This covers First Quantum and Barrick Gold as well. We talked about cost inflation atop the show. Obviously make sense in terms of having to pay more for your operations. Paying more for your labour. Does that differ by jurisdiction or is the whole world in the same basket right now? >> Generally the whole world is in the same situation. But I will say particular points of difficulty are Canada and Australia where labour is incredibly difficult to get. It is extremely tight. And Australia has been the poster child for this, particularly with covert restrictions they have. People have not been able to move between states, I think it is and Australia. And that really tighten things up. And, you know, up until very recently, the market was booming and anyone else trying to get a leg up it was very difficult. You know, last week in Nevada, companies are struggling to find miners. They are just not there and they don't want to work under ground for 12 1/2 hours a day.it's not easy to find the right people to fill the positions in these mines. we will get back to your questions with Greg Barnes in just a moment. A reminder that you can get in touch with us by emailing MoneyTalkLive@td.com. Now let's get to our educational thinking today. If you are interested in doing research on a specific sector of the market, WebBroker has tools that can help you. Joining us now for Maurice Caitlin Cormier, Client Education Instructor at TD Direct Investing. Caitlin, always great to have you with us. Walk us through how we use WebBroker to better get an understanding of the sectors in there. >> Yeah, thanks so much Greg. WebBroker can absolutely help you kind of narrow and more specifically on a particular area of the market. So we have a tool called "watchlist". And what we will do his will actually look at this a specific sector and create a watchlist of that sector. I'll show you worry we can find the security's that area and then kind of, what we can do with it from there. So let's hop into WebBroker under "research". Then we will go down to sectors and industry under "markets" here. That will bring us to our page where we can actually dial down to where we are looking for security. So what kind of part of the market? Here we can choose between Canada and the US. Depending on where we are looking for Securities. I will scroll down here and look at our sector performance overview. Just based on today's theme, I will click on "basic materials" and scroll down again, to get even more specific. I will click on mining and metals. So this going to actually bring up individual Securities that fall under mining and metals special companies. What that does is it allows me to kind of look a little bit deeper at these individual companies. So it has a list here with your market, your P/E ratio, your earnings-per-share growth as well. You can look at the overview, the performance tab the kind of shows you how they performed recently including up to the last five years. There is also news available. The other thing, on the right-hand side as you can actually see if there's a particular strategy are looking for. So a company with high dividend, earnings-per-share growth or price discounted value. Any of those strategies at the companies might be having, this is another place you can look to pull company names to look into a little deeper. So for today, I'm in a choose the high dividend yields on my watchlist just to kinda make it a little bit easier. Solemnity was in a take, once you have figured out which companies you want to add, you simply click on their symbol. Click on this little add to watchlist that we see right here and I will choose list five. So we have that added. And I'm just going to, as they say, add a couple here. Again, we will stick with that list five. There we go. And list 05. That's how I can get them out of there. Then, of course I can go into my watchlist and see a little bit more information about them. > Okay Caitlin so we have been in WebBroker, we built our research in our list. I spent a lot of time on WebBroker. I have other responsibilities as well so I leave and I come back to that list… Where do I find it? >> Yeah. Absolutely. We probably don't have all the time in the world and we want to be able to come back and check in our list and see how our little picks are doing. So when we are in WebBroker, the top right-hand side gives us our watchlist. That little star. Once we get it right now we have listed 05. We can always hit this little button for something different. The stocks that we have here, we can see more detail. We have "quote, fundamentals and tracker". If I click I can see quite a bit of information and just a short, you know, short area here on this particular company. I can see that information about how it's doing today. Again, the fundamental information, I can see the quote information. Again, I can do that for all the security's that are here in this list. If I want to see additional information about any security, I just and we have to click "overview" and it will take me to the overview for that particular Securities information. And again, I can click on "fundamental" and see that information on market, P/E ratio and other information. So quite a bit that you can game just from having seven the watchlist and then if you need more, you can dive deeper and click on that individual arrow there and go to "overview" and get all the information that you might need about that particular company. >> Great stuff as always. Caitlin thanks for that. >> No problem, hopefully it helps with research. >> Our thanks to Caitlin Cormier, Client Education Instructor at TD Direct Investing. And make sure to check the learning centre on WebBroker for more a reminder of how you get in touch with us. Do you have a question about investing, or what is driving the markets? Send it to us here at MONEYTALK LIVE. You can send your questions two ways: You can send us an email anytime at moneytalklive@td.com. Or you can use the question box at the bottom of the screen right here on Web Broker. Just type it out and click send. We'll see if one of our guests can get you the answer right here at MONEYTALK LIVE. Let's take a quick check in on the market several rough sessions… Today in positive territory. We will start in pastry with the TSX Composite Index. Fairly handsome triple digit gain of 265 points. Sort of grinding higher through the session. We are seeing a higher price for a barrel of American benchmark crude. 81, 84 and my screen jumping more than 4% the session. We are single arises well. These are factors of the US dollar. Actually slowing down a little bit. It's been ripping to the upside. The Bank of England, our Anthony Okolie will join us in just a few minutes. The whole fighting inflation… The S&P 500 at 3703. Let's check in the tech heavy NASDAQ. Even though Apple is having a down day to the tune of about 3%, we showed at the top of the show this unconfirmed report. The demand for iPhone 14 were not as robust as they would've liked. You are still seeing the broader American market and the tech heavy NASDAQ in positive territory. Up 138 points. A little more than 1/4%. We are back there with Greg Barnes with TD Securities taking your questions about mining stocks so let's get back to them. All right, recently was the Denver gold show. Any big take away from that recent show? >> Yeah. I think first of all the tone of the show was sort of muted as you can expect with what gold prices are doing. But I don't think people were panicking. We have been through this before. How to handle it. By and large, the company's are in good shape financially. They have good balance sheets. They can manage their way through and we can fight inflation issues that we are dealing with. I think one of the takeaways, we noted, was among the larger gold companies was there was a push to increase their exposure to copper. You are going to see Barrick, Newmont, increase how much copper they are mining going forward. I think that helps stabilize cash flows over the long term. Copper mine is generally have a longer life than a gold mine. That gives you an idea where the cash is going to be over the long term. So that's one thing. There was some chatter about some… Heading into it. M&A. Generally companies like to announce things during these shows but not much happened. The biggest news from the show was the share buyback program by Kinross. They have been under a little bit of pressure from Elliott investment management. They agreed to buy back a whack of stock over the next couple years. >> Interesting element indeed. The day that that news broke, you saw the Kinross shares. Are there any other active investors right now pushing names in this space? >> Not that I'm aware of. These things tend to happen quietly in the background before the get announced. So I'm not aware of anything else happening like that. >> In past years for the Denver gold show, any announcements of any M&A activity. Is that usually the kind of thing where there is a buzz in the air of better times? Who's going to give us the big news of a dealmaking? >> You go back to 2019 when Barrick announced their immersion with Rand gold. So yeah, that generates buzz and excitement and I think of the time, the gold prices were doing better as well. So you know, it's just a sentiment in how people feel at the time. That really dictates what the sense of the tone is like. > Of course here in Toronto, where we are sitting having this conversation, there is the PD AC conference. How does that lineup with gold? The importance of the people show up? >> The Denver gold show is very much focused on the gold industry. It brings together the gold industry globally that's where everybody goes. For the chatter among the various parties at the show. Investor type conference focused on gold. The PD AC is generally a more mine oriented conference. It's bigger by far. I think there about 1000 People in Denver. 25,000 people that show up for PD AC. So very different shows. >> Another question on the platform. As the gold sector better to focus on the streamers or to focus on the miners? >> Right now definitely in the streamers. They're not exposed to inflationary cost pressure they just take the revenue off the top line. So they are definitely performing better. They're still down to date but outperforming gold producers just because they don't have that inflation exposure. >> How do you watch that in terms of thinking streamers versus miners in this environment? What makes you think going forward more seriously again? >> The rise in gold prices. You want the leverage but the streamers don't have a rising leverage with the gold price with when clearly the miners do with operating costs. There's a meaningful difference on the bottom line and that's why people hold gold stocks and they give that leverage to gold. Streamers don't quite have that. >> With this current gold price, obviously there's some pressure in recent weeks and months. Is it still an industry that is making an ice and amount of my money? The margins look all right? >> They look all right. They could be better. >> They could be better. >> There are generating mounds of free cash flow. The cash flow has obviously come down, $1600 gold is not $1900 gold. So I guess the question is where is gold going? We don't know. Could it go 1500? It could. I hope it doesn't. But that's the fear at the moment. When you have the drop in gold price, rising costs… It's challenging. >> All right. Another question right now. Can we have Greg's take on TECK Ressources? They've been in the news lately as well. >> Doing well a bit held back by lower copper prices. Still a good copper price historically. Copper prices is a big part of the revenue at the moment. Holding up very well budgeting around $300. Big margins on that front. So they are still generating pretty healthy free cash flow, even in this environment. And more importantly, they are in the final strokes of completing their project in Chile. We should see production from that mine this year. That will mean going forward that cap X is coming down dramatically. they are pledging to buy back a lot of stock with that free cash flow. >> If I remember correctly, is tech one of those companies that is a longer-term plan and whether they wanted focused not so much on the coal? Maybe a little more the copper in the future? there focusing to be more, they are now more on cold but will flip and copper will benefit from the decarbonization that we are talking about. > One of the risks in that strategy? It seems like a smart play. >> The copper growth is heavily focused in Chile which is going through Simplot will gyrations. They just rejected the draft of the Constitution. So there is going to be more talk in Chile about what the Constitution should look like, what taxes, what royalties will look like in Chile. So that is a bit of a risk no question. But the highest risk of the copper growth strategy for now is behind them which is to build a QB2. >> Interesting stuff. We will get back with your questions with Greg Barnes in just a moment's time. A reminder to do your own research before making investment decisions in a reminder that you get in touch of us. Do you have a question about investing, or what is driving the markets? Send it to us here at MONEYTALK LIVE. You can send your questions two ways: You can send us an email anytime at moneytalklive@td.com. Or you can use the question box at the bottom of the screen right here on Web Broker. Just type it out and click send. We'll see if one of our guests can get you the answer right here at MONEYTALK LIVE. It's one of those stories that definitely caught my attention this morning, the Bank of England announcing plans to buy bonds. In a bid to restore order to the market after some tax cuts from their government. It prompted a big selloff. Anthony Okolie joining us now to discuss. I didn't think this was part of the playbook right now for central banks. But clearly the BOE has delivered some thing fresh. >> Is clearly something fresh. TD Securities said that the Bank of England is on schedule plan to postpone the sale of UK bonds in order to stabilize the market was not a huge surprise. They did flagged this in the report as a possible next step given the fact of giving Lynn's concerns over the rising, rapid rise in yields. I did bring along a graphic TD Securities produced to show that daily currency and yield moves since 2007. The dot in the far bottom right illustrates the huge swings and yields and currency that occur on September 23. You can see that Sterling sunk 3 1/2% against the US dollar. In the UK, five-year yields surged 50 basis points on that day alone. That's a record not seen since 2007 during the financial crisis. You can see that happening up in the far top right quadrant. In addition to post owning the sales of yields, the Bank of England, as we mentioned, plans to buy to restore the order, orderly market conditions. TD Securities says that this latest move was a bit of a surprise. Calling it a "financial stability measure" as opposed to inflationary measure. TD Securities expects this will be temporary and of course will be focused on the long end of the curve. We are seeing 30 years… Have sold off in one week alone. TD Securities now believe that the odds of an inter-meeting policy decision have lessened. And they expect the next rate hike to come at the Bank of England's policy meeting which is set for November 3. While the development, since the Bank of England's September meeting, arguing for more aggressive hike, TD Securities expects an overly cautious monetary policy committee to air on the soft side. They see a hike of about 75 Basis Points in November. Now, early this week, I did report that TD Securities did revise that estimate of the Bank of England QA by 75 basis points to 4 1/4%. Again, in response to the latest of elephants. >> So the Bank of England moves in, start buying bonds again and try to bring some stability to that part. We know that the British pound took quite a hit, as well off that many budget. What is TD Securities think when it comes to chance of currency intervention question mark >> TD Securities does not believe that will happen. They think the Bank of England just doesn't have the reserves to address the weakness in the pound. Which is against the US dollar… They also think if there's any intervention in the foreign currency market right now, it's not one solution to offset the weakness. The pound is, as they point out, depreciating by investors in the government's policy platform. Ask fascinating stuff. Thanks Anthony. >> My pleasure. >> MoneyTalk Live's Anthony Okolie. Let's check in the markets again. This is being felt a lot from asset class. As you can see, the US dollar has been ripping hire all year, actually pulling back a little today. Some of the commodities that we've been talking about during the show to gain some ground. You have American benchmark crude above 81, approaching almost 82 bucks a barrel a jump of more than 4%. You have gold of the rise again as well, benefiting the energy stocks and miners in Toronto. I don't even see the TSX. But we know it's up. We have Yamana Gold. . . Up. Crescent Point Energy, with crude as well eight bucks and $0.26, it's been a rough ride for the stock lately but today it's up to the tune of $0.29, about 3.6%. South of the border, check in on the S&P 500. Same dynamics at play right now. Thinking about the bank of England did and what that could mean for the situation you're in right now. 3697. Up one of the third of a percent. Even though Apple is having a down day, you see the broader market and the NASDAQ with 162 points in the upside. Let's take a look at Apple right now. Seems to be holding at the same levels of those unconfirmed reports that the iPhone 14, Apple is getting ready perhaps to ask for a few more millions to be built and now apparently according to these unconfirmed reports there saying "you need to build as extra phones". Not as popular as they hoped they would be. We are back there with Greg Barnes at TD Securities talking about the mining sector. One question fresh off the platform. What is the outlook for HBM? > Completing a feasibility study on a big project. In Arizona. It's called copper world. It's something they want to build and grow their copper exposure. We think it's likely in the next couple of years, they will sanction that project in fact I'm going down to look at it in a couple of weeks. They're going well in Peru. Not impacted by some of the social issues that Peru has weathered over the Summer. So they have not had the negative impact on production there. An up in Manitoba, the gold operations, they are doing well. Clear the gold price coming down is not the perfect environment. But the ramp up, is going fine. > We talked Hudbay, we talked tech… We realize the opportunity in copper. Is there a risk that the space gets crowded there? >> Everyone wants to be a copper mine and the problem is finding the right copper project or a copper project. They don't grow on trees. In fact it's very difficult to find. So all the big, global big minds are looking for more copper. We talked but the gold companies. They want more copper exposure. The existing copper mines while more copper exposure. It's very challenging to find. > Here's a question that chases down a different road. Will higher demand for energy be bullish for uranium? >> I think what's most bullish for uranium is obviously decarbonization and the shift to lower carbon energy sources of which nuclear is a very good one. The other ship is obviously, energy security. Particularly in Europe where they have been hammered by the supply not coming. So there is definitely a shift towards more nuclear power generation being built over the next 10 to 20 years just to secure your energy grid and to make sure that you have energy security. It's not just having something happened in Europe. It's happening in Asia. Japan recently recommitted to nuclear power which is big news after Fukushima. The Middle East is doing it. We are seeing some moves in North America in increased nuclear capacity. It's slow but it's gaining. >> Will be a long-term play in the sense that you've seen the uranium price jumped, especially as you said, it's pretty specific that Japan who had Fukushima, getting back into a broader plan for people starting to be more accepting of nuclear. It seemed for the past 10 years and we want to talk about it. >> Absolutely. There definitely has been a sentiment shift in favour of nuclear power. It ties into the decarbonization themes. It ties into energy security. And when you look around the world, you want to run a major economy, it's very difficult to do on solar and wind power alone. You need solid power which is what nuclear gives you. > Interesting stuff. The next question is not easy demand on the rise. Will it boost the price of copper? Not only copper but maybe copper and the other things that go into an electric vehicle? >> Sure. EV penetration is clearly happening. I just look around my neighbourhood. There is a Teslin every second driveway. Easy demand will be a big driver of metals consumption. Whether we are talking about copper, cobalt, lithium. These things are going to batteries. They will be needing to be more of it. The recurring theme is a lack of supply and the difficulty developing it. So no question, EV growth will drive higher copper demand, higher demand for the other metals I just mentioned as well. >> And longer term, you talk about the supply crunch. If everyone had an electric vehicle in the world… Obviously we are a long way from that. Would we have enough with the materials on the ground to deliver on that? >> You tell me what the copper prices going to be in yes we could. But it would require much different copper prices that we have today if everyone wants and EV. >> I guess that if the price is right the world is there. Always a pleasure to have you. >> Thank you. >> That was Greg Barnes manager TD Securities. Stay tuned on Monday, Chris Wheelan, Senior Canada Rates Strategist at TD Securities will be our guest take your questions with the economy and interest rates. A reminder of course that you don't have to wait until the show to get your questions and. For any show really that we have in our calendar. Get a head start and email us at moneytalklive@td.com. That's all the time we have a show today. Thanks for watching we will see you tomorrow. [music]