Stephen Biggar

[music] Hello I'm Greg Bonnell and welcome to MoneyTalk Live, brought to you by TD Direct Investing. Every day I'll be joined by guests from across TD, many

of whom you will only see here. We we'll take you through it's moving the markets and answer questions about investing. Coming up on today's show, will discuss the big

takeaways from bank earnings season so far with Steve and bigger from Argus research. In today's WebBroker education segment, Bryan Rogers

will take us through how you can find stocks that are getting analyst attention on the platform. So here's how you can get in touch with us. Just email

MoneyTalk Live@td or Phil at the viewer response box under the video player on WebBroker. We will get to our guest for today but first let's get

you an update on the markets. A bit of a different tone taking hold as we enter the lunch hour. We will start here on Bay Street with the TSX Composite

Index. Holding in positive territory. Pretty modest at 8 1/2 points or four ticks. We do have

crude oil making gains and China, what that could mean for demand. Let's check at some energy names including Canadian Natural Ressources up shy of 2%. Also taking a look at Wesdom Goldwith six bucks and $0.42 down a little more than 17%. Let's take a look at the S&P 500. It was in positive

territory this morning, we had some economic data today with those retail sales, producer prices that did suggest that we will continue to see inflationary pressures ease and put some money into the market. But that sentiment has changed in the last couple of

hours. Nothing too dramatic but you have the NASDAQ down, you

have the S&P 500 down and Amazon which had been an example of stocks trying to strengthen, still some green on the screen but giving us some gains from earlier in this session just up a few cents. And that's your market update. With fears of an economic slowdown increasingly in

focus, we've been parsing through the latest earnings from the big US banks this week. >>Basically it came out with some production updates at

six bucks and $0.42 down a little more than 70%. The S&P 500 in positive territory this morning.

We had some economic data that did suggest that we will continue to see inflationary pressures ease and put some money into the market but that sentiment has changed in the last couple of hours. Nothing too dramatic but you have the NASDAQ down.

The S&P 500 down and Amazon which had been an example of strengths, still having some green on the screen but gains early in the session just up $0.71. And that's your market update. with fears of an economic slowdown increasingly

unfocused, we've been parsing through the latest earnings from the big US banks this week. Joining us now is Stephen Biggar.

Great to have you back in the program. So we've heard some of the biggest names in Wall Street so far. One of the big takeaways from all this?

>> Well we had another quarter of big extremes I would say. The net interest income number lines were up 20, 30% in

many cases. So just that great tailwind from the higher interest rates from the Federal Reserve. We've had all year. You go back last quarter rates were

nearly 0. So any improvement there, we've had 400 basis points of

uptick there in rates. So great on the net interest income line. But the loss revision, the other part of the loan

business has been very much and offset. We had banks basically saying "we've got a weaker economy. Higher credit card charge ups coming in particular." Weaker consumer job market is still holding up pretty well and that's usually a terrific forecaster of delinquencies. But as you are looking at the next couple of quarters,

we do expect charge ups have been soloed during the last couple of years, really. So we've had, in many cases, a doubling of loss revisions and in some cases, going from a recapture last year to provisions this year. The other big swing item has been the investment

banking side, you know, down 45 and 55% for most of the large banks here. So just a really weak environment for capital raising corporate America is taking a break and seeing what the outlook is going to look like here. Going further into this year. And it just seems we are

seeing some weakness on that side. So usually banks are kind of steady state growers but

this time we have wild swings in a lot of income lines. >> Let's talk a little more about the Capital Markets

activities. Heading into what you think might be a weaker economy or perhaps even a mild recession. You provision more for losses, you see that slow down

and Capital Markets activity, if the second half of this year shapes up a little bit better, with there be an appetite? Would there be sort of capital market activities

waiting to hit the market if we can get past all this? >> I think there is yeah.

A fair amount of pent-up demand here. A lot of

companies, the Capital Markets and the innovation that's going on in the economy at any given time is, you know, it's really always there. So there's new companies waiting to come to market. So a fair amount of pent-up demand I think.

Particularly the healthcare side and almost always in the technology, tax that would love to tap the Capital Markets. But yeah, we do need, I think to get beyond the

increases at this point from the Fed rate. At this point at Morgan Stanley, mentioning that he thinks it's off to the races, pretty much. The Fed signals the first time they are at zero in terms of rate increases. So you know, all are forecasting and our 25, maybe 50,

25 or a few 25 basis point increase is here. And then when they get to that zero signal, they are

done for now. That could be a catalyst for the broader market to

provide some stability. Give corporate America that confidence back.

We talked about investment banking but MNA activity as well has been soft. Not as soft as investment banking but that's another

area where you just want some stability back in the markets. Rates are higher and it's gonna cost them, you know, more if you have any financing to do. But a lot of pent-up demand I think, on the MNA side as well. >> This perhaps plays out later this year. Getting some

indications of the US consumer indeed feeling the bite of these higher borrowing costs that we are seeing retail sales pullback and perhaps a disappointing holiday season. How does that feed into a bank's credit card business? >> Well, yeah.

It's definitely bearish mentioning as retail sales are

down 1%. Showing us that the consumer is in a much more cautious mode that they have been for much of 2022. That was the single worst month decline. It did

actually match the November number which was revised down also to 1%. So certainly, less, spending going on by consumers here. That means less spending on credit cards you know, if

you think about some of the other big ticket items, clearly mortgages, homebuying has moved off, well off its highs. Auto loans as well, a bit of a weak spot. So I think

just really at this point, a range of all those items in the retail sales for today was dismal in a lot of categories. It was dining, it was online sales. It was electronics…

As well as furniture and housing. So it was really a broad-based down and retail spending. So yeah, credit card companies, they do have a natural kind of secular story here. A positive secular story and they are still more of a migration from cash and checks to credit cards of the digital payment. So that's benefiting that long-term growth. There is a natural tailwind with inflation as well so you know, a basket of goods lasts rather last year it cost you 100 and now it costs you 108. They are charging on the card. That's obviously a tailwind for those companies. So they don't see a big drop off necessarily but

slowing growth rate and in line with the mood of consumers. >> We think of so many parts of the banking businesses

and some of them obviously very high profile and get a lot of aim but what about deposits? What are we seeing trending in that area coming out of

the pandemic? Because I was a very interesting space.

>> Yeah deposits throughout the pandemic, banks were

just flushed with deposits. You at consumers you know, saving a lot.

They got government stimulus checks in the USdeposit accounts : checking accounts talk about really moving much much higher during the pandemic so the banks wash of cash, rates were at zero so we couldn't get a good yield in CD or bond braces or bond yields with bond yields being much lower. So very recently. In just the second half of 22 when

the Fed moves higher and allowed some really decent yields across the spectrum. Migrate bonds, admissible Securities, CDs, even savings

accounts are yielding much higher so there's a migration that's taking place and you know, whereas banks with that interest margin expansion was really spectacular for much of 2022, as banks raise the rates on loans and it didn't really raise the rates as quickly on the deposits of the other funding sources. But that's changed now. You have most of the benefit

having been achieved on the raising of the lending rates but now you're finding that consumers are getting smarter and seeing these much higher yields available in the market through CDs and other bonds and other Securities transferring these non-interest-bearing deposits to something that brings a pretty decent yield. So that's the backend, we think will start to hurt

after a high interest margin as we move through 2023. >> Fascinating stuff and a great start to the program.

we will get to your questions for Stephen Biggar in just a moment's time and reminding you that you can email us your questions@moneytalkliveatd. com.

Let's get you updated on some of the top stories in business. Microsoft is joining the chorus of tech companies

announcing layoffs, saying it will reduce its workforce by 10,000 employees. In a filing, the software giant says the layoffs, along

with other cost-cutting moves, will result in a $1.2 billion charge in its second quarter. Alphabet, Amazon and Salesforce are among the tech companies recently announcing job cuts. Shares of United Airlines are in the spotlight today.

That after the air carrier beat revenue and earnings estimates for its most recent quarter. United says demand for air travel remain strong, even

in the face of higher ticket prices. Competitors such as Delta and American Airlines have also said demand for travel continues to grow. … It seems to have gone down to the tune of about 1.6%.

Let's take a look at Moderna. It says it's RSV vaccine is highly effective in preventing disease in older adults. The vaccine uses the same messenger RNA technology has

its COVID-19 shot and Moderna says it's planning to file for FDA approval in the coming months. Both Canada and the US saw surgeon RSV cases throughout

the fall. Moderna a little shy of 4% up. Looking at the main

benchmark indices here in Canada on pastry with the TSX Composite Index, is holding in positive territory. We will call that nine points to be generous. And in

the US, that brought a read of the American market, the S&P 500 down 31 points, we will call that three quarters of a percent to the downside. Back now with Stephen Biggar taking your questions

about financial stocks. The big question of the year really, how do bank stocks

bear during a recession? >> Yes so the banks are kind of a naturally hedged

vehicle to an extent. In periods of growth, when you've got rising loan growth, economies are covering expansion largely because yields are moving higher, and you don't have a lot of charge-offs but at the same time, as yields move higher, your banks are big holders of bonds. Another Securities like that. So those tend to be a little less, obviously as yields move up. In a downturn, it's kind of, it's a double-edged sword

where you have lesser loan growth, you have generally higher charge-offs because there is a terrific correlation between the employment situation or the unemployment situation I should say… And charge ups of banks so you know, you have a job or if you can easily replace a job, you tend to stay current on your bills and if there is more unemployment, if that's bikes to, five, 6% or above, banks have trouble with delinquencies, more charge ups, more loss provisions. But as yields come down, in that scenario, the

portfolios are worth more and they take Securities gains. But in general, I think if you ask any bank CEO, they would rather hold the economy they would rather the loan growth, they would rather high interest margins. They would prefer the Capital Markets be strong and

efficient and especially the larger banks that do play in that arena. M&A activity, training, investment banking does much

better in a stronger economy so yeah, they aren't recession proof by any stretch. They're well-capitalized and we don't see any problem in a mild-to-moderate type of downturn but a severe one yeah. Clearly they will get hurt. They are cyclical vehicles.

>> Probably the most complicated part of this question, you say the word "recession" as if it's just one thing but you said it could be mild, short-lived or deep and long-lived. That would seem to make all the difference for so many parts of the market. >> It doesn't listening to some of the bank conference

calls here, even the PNC just this morning, came right out and said that they expect a moderate recession sometime in 2023 with a 1% decline in US GDP. And that's what they're preparing for. So that's why

they, you know, something like BNC is getting hurt today because the loss provisioning's in the stocks today, I would say well above where the consensus was that they are preparing for that rainy day that they expect to happen later in 2023. So yeah, you have to, nobody is forecasting a severe

recession at this point that I've seen. Certainly not bank managements. There is a preponderance of economists that expect a

recession and that's a little bit unusual. Most of the time they sort of sneak up on you and your

really is prepared maybe. So maybe now, it can be self-fulfilling as well. Seeing a lot of layoffs and financials and technology. It is so, CEOs are just becoming much more cautious here and self-fulfilling, one person sees it another CEO says they are cutting back, I should too… You weren't doing the types of investments that you normally would. You are just waiting for better times. So yeah, we hope it doesn't become just to

self-fulfilling and that puts us into more than a mild or moderate downturn. >> Good points indeed.

Alright let's get to another question from the audience. This one about payment firms.

>> PayPal and Square have very interesting business models. You know, similar but different. In some regards.

PayPal has been is the in app purchases, you can use it in a lot of ways with person-to-person payment as well. Square is big and the micro vergence. You think about

your farmers markets things like that. When they really made it much easier for those vendors

to use credit cards. Throw in app on an iPad and things like that.

A device, or you can swipe a credit card and make it very easy. So they've been a big in this migration from cash and

checks over to digital or card payments. They both have that natural kind of secular tailwind that I mentioned earlier. More and more spending on cards. They continue to expand the number of merchants that can be used through those apps. You know, it's hard now to find a vendor where you can't select PayPal for example. So I think there's a fairly long runway of growth

opportunity for these two firms. With the caveat that there are bumps along the road. I think the one thing that showcases during the pandemic is when you have this online spending, you kind of pull growth forward by I would say as much is two years. They are sort of feeling that now a little bit.

The growth rates have slowed. Not only because the economy and the retail spending as

you mentioned, is slower. But also because of that migration that already occurred. A lot of people were new to the platforms. They began using the more and accelerated their growth

in the earlier days of the pandemic and now we are on the other side of that and they have a bit slower growth. >> Definitely a fascinating space.

Reminding you to always do your own research at home before making investment decisions. We will get back to your questions for Stephen Biggar

in just a moment's time on stocks. You can email us anytime, MoneyTalk Live attitude.com.

Now let's get to her educational segment. >> One of the most common questions we get about stocks

is "how do I find what stocks are trending when I'm doing my research"? A lot of times in our classes we will get people asking

what they are looking for and how to find the stocks trending in the market right now. Fortunately we do have a tool in WebBroker that does

that for you. So it is provided by a third-party provider called tip ranks. You've probably seen us talk about the analyst reading but there is a section in the analyst centre that shows you trending stocks. So we will jump into WebBroker right now. We will take a quick look at how you get there. You're

gonna want to go to the "research" tab. Then you're going to go to the "analyst centre" this

will take you to this screen right here. Let's show you the most recent rating.

Stocks rating by the analyst most recently. That's the one that it defaults to what a lot of people

don't notice on the right-hand side, you can see there is a trending stock section. If you click on this tab to the right, right here, this is going to show you within a certain number of days, it'll have default settings and you will see the last 90 days. Can see these of the most rated stocks by analysts.

They have hundreds and hundreds of analysts compiled together. To show you that these are the stocks trending from a bio perspective etc. You can scroll down the list. If you are looking for buyout opportunities, you can

see Amazon here for example, Mehta, Salesforce. You can click on the stock itself and go to additional

information. Before you do that though, if you did want to filter and go maybe in the last 30 days to change the period, you will see the actual list does change slightly. You can go to filter by the United States only or Canada. You can also filter by market caps. There are some other additional filters you could do to

find different trends in the stocks are different trending categories. So once you've done that, let's say we can go back and if you want to go to the most rated, that's even if you click on the best rated stocks in general, we can see that we have this list here. These are all strong buys.

Then you want to do your additional research and click on the stock itself. That will take you in to the overview charts. So all these tabs are available and you could do some

additional research. You can click on the analyst tab and there, you can see

what is going on in terms of what they have is a price target, what they have is a high, an average, low. You can see in the ratings. This one is fairly small and there are only three ratings of this one. Different stocks will have more analyst ratings depending on the popularity or, I guess, the broadness of the stock, for example, or the volume. You can see at the bottom, the analyst. I'm reading it and you can see what their rating is as well. So it gives you a really good start to researching some stocks that you're looking for. So that's about it in terms of looking at trending

stocks. Just remember that when you are using this tool, this is just a starting point. You will be able to go into look at research reports from that same segment we just looked at as an overview. You can look at news, additional fundamental analysis and other data associated with stocks. So make sure you are not using this is your only research point but it is a good starting point to identify stock trading opportunities. >> Our thanks to Bryan Rogers, Senior Client Education

Instructor with TD Direct Investing. Make sure to check WebBroker's for live master classes

and upcoming webinars. Before we get to your questions about financial stocks

with Stephen Biggar, a reminder of how you can get in touch with us. Do you have a question about investing, or what is

driving the markets? Our guests are eager to answer your questions so send them to us here at MoneyTalk Live. You can send your questions two ways: you can send us an email any time at moneytalklive@td.com or you can use the question box at the bottom screen right here on WebBroker just type your question and hit "send". We will see if one of our guests can get you the answer right here at MoneyTalk Live. >> We are back with Stephen Biggar taking we are

questions about financial stocks. Let's get back to them.

One wants to know what your outlook is for the big credit card firms to mark >> Yeah. So I think there are a couple of different things when

you think of a credit cards. I think of the issuers and the lenders, capital one… Discover… Then you have more of the pure plays in terms of the transactions. You know, with that kind of MasterCard and Visa.

Then you have kind of the backbone providers like global payment and fidelity information. So you know, again I think largely, right here for most

of these firms, good growth in terms of overall spending. Year after year. It tends to be kind of high single-digit and low

double-digit growth rate in volumes for them. They tend to be pretty efficient, these companies. So

they can translate a lot of those revenues into better earnings growth so that high single to low double-digit tends to translate to mid double-digit or kind of midteens I should say, with growth rate earnings. You take a company like Visa as 60% margins so that's

among the best out there in terms of the broad S&P 500 type. So these are pretty efficient firms. They have experienced, obviously, moving through down

cycles. They tend not to do cost-cutting and down cycles.

They are efficient from the start. To some extent, they will be at the mercy of spending

volumes if that holds up. Clearly, also cyclical vehicles to another extent.

They would like to see the economy doing well and the consumer spending more. More of a migration, again, to credit cards and digital

forms versus cash and checks. So fairly well-positioned and these are not firms that

you tend to have to worry about in downturns. You do have to understand the risks that there will be

some moderation in the spending volumes and earnings will, growth does tend to come in and some basis substantially. >> You have to look at the risks and opportunities in

that space. Another viewer wondering about the US regional banks. The big Wall Street banks. Obviously getting a lot of

attention. What about the regionals? >> They sure do. Probably 80% of the mind share.

For good reason. They have their tentacles and a lot of

the national banking franchises. The big banks and the amount of money they pull in

globally. But yeah, the regional banks are interesting vehicles. Of course, much more plays to the lending business and most have some miner offsets. They do earn some money in Capital Markets and they facilitate things that the financing level, tends to be larger mortgage lenders as a component of their revenues. Asset and wealth management in addition to the lending

businesses insurance operations, which are pretty steady. Generally through market cycles. So I think, the view that we are going to have kind of

a steady-state here will have some moderate loan growth in 2023. They will also have, the charge ups won't spike to high

and that is an assumption really, that the labour market does not unwind, you know, I think that's why most economists and myself as a bank analyst, will get at that and say: "until recently we had something like two jobs available for every one unemployed person in the US." So there's a lot of slack there for it to come down. Of course there's always a mismatch between the

employment and the skill set needed for the job available. But regional banks, they are very efficient at this point. They aren't as subject to the same Federal Reserve

requirements as the large banks. So they don't have to set aside quite as much capital. They aren't deemed in most cases, except for very large

regionals, to be statistically significant. Which is the fed term for putting them in that bracket where they really set aside a lot of capital. The fed worries about them and their financial standpoint. And they also pay good dividend yields. 3 1/2%, upwards

of 4%. The price-to-book and the traditional valuation… Too

high at this point, I think you can find some decent value in the regional banks. >> I often think of the regionals be very tightly

correlated to the economy. Perhaps more than some of the Wall Street banks. As you said before, I would like to see a strong

economy as opposed to a week one. Is that what some of the economists were hoping?

>> Yes as you said, from an economic standpoint, they are much more beholden to the lending business and how that performs. The larger banks, J.P. Morgan's and Bank of America does… They have a 50-50 split with lending revenues versus non-lending revenues were as the regional banks are 70, 7775%, often really at the lending revenues that they have. Offset for the non-lending side. So your banking on that loan growth maintaining itself and that the credit rather net charges are going despite too much and. But that's the risk side of the equation.

>> Okay we will get back to your questions with Stephen Biggar on stocks in just a moment's time and a reminder to make your own research before making investment decisions. A reminder that you can get in touch with us at any time. Do you have a question about investing, or what is

driving the markets? Our guests are eager to answer your questions so send them to us here at MoneyTalk Live. You can send your questions two ways: you can send us an email any time at moneytalklive@td.com or you can use the question box at the bottom screen right here on WebBroker just type your question and hit "send". We will see if one of our guests can get you the answer right here at MoneyTalk Live. >> Canadian Life Insurers are scheduled to report

fourth-quarter results in just a few weeks time and ahead of that TD Securities has released their latest call on the sector. Our Anthony Okolie has been digging in joint is now with more. Anthony. >> Thanks Greg. TD Securities says regular valuation no

longer favours Canadian insurers over the banks delayed reporting. So we mention Canadian life insurance companies are set for fourth-quarter results on February 8. Previously, the potential for deposit runoff or banks as well as a tough condition for Canadian housing market, along with relative valuation led TD Securities to favour insurers over banks in 2022. In the report, TD Securities revised which are lower than consensus aspects. Here are some of the key highlights: first, TD Securities came for earnings-per-share EPS for the three biggest insurers flat to down 6%. These estimates reflect wealth management earnings as

well as high tax expense. They also point to the fact that we growth in 2023 is mostly reflecting the transition to IFR SX international financial reporting standards. This came into effect on January 1 of this year.

Meanwhile, their insurance group target's for priced earnings forecast is set at the top of the target range. That's between 10 times, 10 1/2 times the cost of earnings. That's up from the previous estimates are that slightly

lower versus the bank's target price-earnings ratio of 10 with 5×211 times. Now these target prices imply a return, a total return of 14% across the insurance group. TD Securities doesn't see any obvious signs of stress

for insurance. But flagging the real estate book, particularly the

office sector for commercial mortgage book that could be the most likely source of credit impairments in 2023. Greg. >> So there's a call on the life of those.

What about some of the risks to that call? >> I think one of the key risks could be a spike or

decline in interest rates. Or deterioration in the credit conditions. That could

pose a risk to the prices. Now, other risks can include a significant downturn in the equity markets as well as changes in tax regulations that could affect the attractiveness of insurance and products. >> Great stuff there.

Thanks as always Anthony. >> My pleasure.

> MoneyTalk Live's Anthony Okolie. And now a quick check on the markets. My question was answered before I got into my mouth.

The TSX falling into negative territory. nothing too dramatic. Some of the energy names with

high crude prices. Crescent point still in positive territory but not to the extent it was earlier in the session. Not putting as many points on the table as it was

during the morning session. Nine bucks and $0.74 a share.

Shopify had been in positive territory earlier in the morning too. It is now modestly negative with 5335. A turn from where we were in the morning when the market got a bit of a boost off of signs of further easing of inflationary pressures south of the border to now being negative. Let's check in on the S&P 500 indeed. It is down to the tune of almost a full percent now. A little shy of 40 points in the whole. In the NASDAQ

let's see how it fares in the broader US market. Down three quarters of a percent now. And Moderna. We were telling you earlier in the program

but there are SV vaccine which they say is highly effective to prevent disease. Still hanging in the positive territory.

Still up to the tune of 2 1/2%. Back now with Stephen Biggar talking about stocks.

Here's an interesting question Steven, his private equity still an interesting part of the market? >> Yes. I think so.

I cover some of the firms here like Apollo global and

Blackstone group and KKR. The big benefit, I think, to these firms is the massive amount of flexibility that they do have in hell they, you know, derive their incomes. Most of them are rapidly building up their feet

business and private equity so these are the fees that they charge for managing all of these assets. They have a lot of flexibility with regard to capital

structure. They are far less regulated and they have teams that are just very good at finding opportunities and yields an increasingly, they are also helping on the capital raising side. Of course, the big fundraising machines, to start with. But allocating capital where it is needed, often in cases where companies cannot get access to bank financing because of, risk levels and things like that. So they really provide you know, an interesting service, I think throughout the economy. On the risk side though, they have pretty volatile

income stream. Their monetization's are very much a function of their exit strategies for these investments that they make. They tend to buy things and sometimes it's a longer term holding period. Other times it's 2 to 3 years. They try to get through it more times. That requires a good environment. Patient investors, patient sellers, they wait for the right market opportunity to dispose of investments and monetize those with reward shareholders through the distributions that they derive once those investments are sold. So fascinating. A little confusing to the average investor I would say. Rather than EPS, they have distributed learnings. We

call it DE. Instead of EPS. Not your traditional income statements and balance sheets. You know, the talking points are dry capital and

perpetual capital and things that, you know, are part of the every day lexicon maybe not. But several I think, good growth here and all of them,

seemingly, have pretty high target in terms of assets where they hope to get to within the next 2 to 5 years. >> Definitely a bit of a different landscape but you

did a good job of breaking it down for the audience if they want to further explore that part of the market. We have run out of time for questions but I want to get

your final thoughts on how investors should be viewing the financial space given some of the challenges and opportunities in the second half. >> Yeah. So I think so much of the broader market here

kind of in-house view. … We are in a little bit of an odd.

. We are at the tail end of rate hikes and banks will

continue to have a year-over-year benefit. So if you are looking year-over-year. You're still in

the sea some good growth and that income because of that lag effect. How long it takes the higher rates to work their way up bank balance sheets. So that will continue to grow a year after the last rate hike. But at the same time, you've got this unwinding or

increasing chance for an unwinding and perhaps the labour market, the Fed is actually, I would say, they would prefer to have a little less, you know, growth in the labour market at this point and to tamp down on wage inflation which is in turn, causing broader inflation. So I think that's one of the biggest risks to the banking and financial segment. Until we get to the second half, I think, there's kind of a better story to be told with respect to capital market fundraising. Capital raising investment banking, M&A activity and like the big banks are going to be in the doghouse year in terms of earnings. Growth capabilities particularly in the first half

again. So I'm not ready to say that this is a hold hold.

Waiting for entirely second half because values can be created at various times here. But you know, I think somewhat to the broader market, there is a lot of "wait and see". Until the Fed makes its last move. At that point we see where we are in the economy. Much

higher rates… And go from there. >> Steven, it's always great to get your insights and

have you in the program. > Thanks for having me Greg.

>> Our thanks to Stephen Biggar, director of financial institutions research at Argus research. Always make sure to do your research before making your own financial decisions. Coming up on Thursday, Haining Zha Portfolio Manager at

TD Asset Management taking questions about China's economy. A reminder that you get a head start on emailing us

questions by emailing moneytalklive@td.com. On behalf of Anthony and I here at the desk and

everyone on Michelle, thanks for watching and will see you tomorrow. [music]